Omg the deaf guy

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/03/2009 06:30:07

Rocky Marciano wrote:Matt Lindland got tapped twice against Murilo Bustamante. Referee had no clue about ground grappling and ignored Lindland tapping to straight arm bar. fight was restarted and Murilo had to literally choke his opponent out to get a win.

I remember this...it was Big John McCarthy as the ref too...horrible decision to break up the arm bar and continue the fight!

I'm a fan of many martial arts...but WRESTLERS are the most boring in my opinion...well...most of them!!! They usually go for the clinch...throw the opponent down...and sit on them for a while... yawn...BORING...

I do appreciate Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu...ever since the Gracie's basically helped create the UFC in the early days. I have many books on Brazilian JJ.. I can do quite a lot of the basic moves like the classic arm bar...kimura...wrist locks...ankle locks...chokes...but i'm only 5'9 in height and 145lbs in weight so I always find it hard to beat my friends in "play fights" because most are over 6'2 tall and weigh 200lbs - 230lbs!!!

WAR MMA!

Donny_king wrote:If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage, if you are not looking to advance your position IE: dropping for the single or trying to control the head for some clinch hitting (dirty boxing) then they will seperate you as you are basically stalling the fight process.

I agree totally with this as you will get some wrestlers which will just hold you down and not try to do anything, they have no submissions and are looking to win on points by controlling you, it's boring and takes away the whole point of the contest.

Standup will always be my favourite part, I love a good dust up so naturally I want to see it when I'm watching a fight but as I understand what's going on when they hit the floor then that is equally apealing to me aslong as we don't get the big guys just bullying the other guy down then lying on him, that's boring as hell, advance, submit, gnp the crap out of them or get up as you are wasting everyones time.

I totally respect boxing and as I pointed out to Larry way back, it's part of MMA, it's just another one of the many arts (science) involved in MMA as this is the whole point: MIXED martials arts. The UFC now isn't what the UFC was back when it started, it started on the idea of throwing all the different arts together and seeing which one came out ontop so we had a guy who was just a boxer or just a judo or just a wrestler going up against other guys who were just w/e. Now adays it's a MIXED martial artist fighting another MIXED martial artist, it's not the same thing anymore.

@Rocky:

The UFC doesn't do that pay to stand up crap, that was EliteXC and they paid Seth to standup against Kimbo as they knew their dumbass bunch of fans wouldn't pay to watch Kimbo submitted, it's awsome that they watched him get KO'd from a jab instead muwahahahaha.

Ii was really incredible that they started the kimbo circus in the first place. He wouldnt stand a chance against anyone remotely good.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/03/2009 07:43:08

"No reason to go in defensive mode, im not attacking grabling or saying this or that is "better". Simply saying that whatever rules you have, boxing has proved to be an important part and useful."

Striking/boxing is and has always been important part of MMA. It is just that having been following MMA for so long and having witnessed multiple rule changes back and forth and impact of those rule changes there is this pattern that many of the long time MMA fans frown upon. Basically for quite some there has been this trend in changing rules away from MMA being a legit sport and making it some kind of "show" ala WWE - custom tailored rules that favor flashy moves and flashy strategy (like super aggressive charge knowing that it is only something like 5 min till opportunity to rest) over more "legitimate" approaches.

But yes as person who has been training various grappling arts (Wrestling, Judo, BJJ) for quite long time it really irritates me to see people stall in order to get a "stand up". It is even worse when we get two guys with horrible stand up that get stood up only to see that they can do even less standing up.

In my opinion for striking arts such as boxing, Thaiboxing, Kickboxing etc. it is always been about being able to adjust your stance and combinations into MMA plus most importantly to learn and master takedown/throw defenses.

I love to watch fighters who have real technical ability to strike properly but I absolutely hate watching people who dont really have the technique to go and try trade standing up.

It is the same with wrestling. What's the point of taking someone down if you dont have skills to finish it up on the ground and end up just laying on top doing... nothing but defending and blocking the other guys attempts.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 09/03/2009 07:53:16

".but i'm only 5'9 in height and 145lbs in weight so I always find it hard to beat my friends in "play fights" because most are over 6'2 tall and weigh 200lbs - 230lbs!!!"

It's all about the technique... really! Just last weekend Ruben "Cobrinha" Charles (around 160 lbs) from Team Alliance BJJ competed in event called Lutador... (eh well Lutador something I am too lazy to go check). Anyway since they had other guys to cover lighter weight divisions and Cobrinha felt like he needs a challenge he entered the heavy weight black belt division. Despite being a light weight guy he ended up tapping all those monster 200+ lbs black belts

Oh well maybe this is not a good example since Cobrinha and Marcello Garcia are regarded as best BJJ grapplers P4P at the moment.

"If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage, if you are not looking to advance your position IE: dropping for the single or trying to control the head for some clinch hitting (dirty boxing) then they will seperate you as you are basically stalling the fight process.

I agree totally with this as you will get some wrestlers which will just hold you down and not try to do anything, they have no submissions and are looking to win on points by controlling you, it's boring and takes away the whole point of the contest."

Perhaps the problem is that ground grappling is in principle very different to both stand up striking and stand up grappling. Both stand up striking and stand up grappling are very dynamic in nature. Opportunity to do a move presents itself in a split second and is there only a split second. This results in a fast explosive movements = exciting.

In ground grappling you can kill the speed (and you should) and gradually build up web of techniques and set up a trap. It really is like a chess. Most of the time there is lot going on although it looks like nothing is really happening. It just does not make good TV. Extremely effective = yes. Good TV = no.

That being said I hate to see MMA become like Olympic Judo: start standing up (and in mma striking goes here), throw/take down, get stood up really fast, repeat.

This all being said I have a problem with following:

""If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage,"

I agree with the above quote. For sure if both of the fighters are just stalling and holding on be it on the ground or standing up in a clinch, there should be a restart. However if it is just one of the fighters doing stalling in order to get out of the position via restart - then it is totally fucked up. There should be yellow card system in the UFC too just to stop this.

Also what if you have two guys standing up just circling and doing nothing/advancing their striking "position"? It is as boring and as stupid as it is in grappling situation. Yet strikers can stall in order to get referee to help them out of grappling position/dimension back to their own strong area (which is striking) and the opposite does not exit for grapplers. There is no stalling standing up to get "stand down". There is no "stand down" to force fighters who do nothing standing up to try fighting on the ground.

Mikkel wrote:in UFC Is like totally ADRIAN I DID IT !
Btw, I cant see anyone beating this guy. I dont know if he is in same Weight as rampage but he would be him for sure.

Rich Franklin owned Hammil like he was a toy.

Rocky Marciano wrote:"If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage, if you are not looking to advance your position IE: dropping for the single or trying to control the head for some clinch hitting (dirty boxing) then they will seperate you as you are basically stalling the fight process.

I agree totally with this as you will get some wrestlers which will just hold you down and not try to do anything, they have no submissions and are looking to win on points by controlling you, it's boring and takes away the whole point of the contest."

Perhaps the problem is that ground grappling is in principle very different to both stand up striking and stand up grappling. Both stand up striking and stand up grappling are very dynamic in nature. Opportunity to do a move presents itself in a split second and is there only a split second. This results in a fast explosive movements = exciting.

In ground grappling you can kill the speed (and you should) and gradually build up web of techniques and set up a trap. It really is like a chess. Most of the time there is lot going on although it looks like nothing is really happening. It just does not make good TV. Extremely effective = yes. Good TV = no.

That being said I hate to see MMA become like Olympic Judo: start standing up (and in mma striking goes here), throw/take down, get stood up really fast, repeat.

This all being said I have a problem with following:

""If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage,"

I agree with the above quote. For sure if both of the fighters are just stalling and holding on be it on the ground or standing up in a clinch, there should be a restart. However if it is just one of the fighters doing stalling in order to get out of the position via restart - then it is totally fucked up. There should be yellow card system in the UFC too just to stop this.

Also what if you have two guys standing up just circling and doing nothing/advancing their striking "position"? It is as boring and as stupid as it is in grappling situation. Yet strikers can stall in order to get referee to help them out of grappling position/dimension back to their own strong area (which is striking) and the opposite does not exit for grapplers. There is no stalling standing up to get "stand down". There is no "stand down" to force fighters who do nothing standing up to try fighting on the ground.

Your saying alot of things and even quoting me..but it dont look as if you disagree with me so..

I think I saw Matt on one of the Ultimate fighter seasons. Seemed like a well rounded kid, But any way I watch MMA when I see a fight that interest me. Most of the time I see alot of sloppy fighters. But I am amazed how well some of the elite fighters can fight on the ground. I am all for fighting sports I just perfer boxing. I even once thought about having 1 MMA fight and training with the local team quest gym just to do it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 18/03/2009 07:20:52

HTF wrote:I think I saw Matt on one of the Ultimate fighter seasons. Seemed like a well rounded kid, But any way I watch MMA when I see a fight that interest me. Most of the time I see alot of sloppy fighters. But I am amazed how well some of the elite fighters can fight on the ground. I am all for fighting sports I just perfer boxing. I even once thought about having 1 MMA fight and training with the local team quest gym just to do it.

Indeed he was on the season which Micheal Bisping won, the season where Tito Ortiz and Ken Shamrock were the coaches. Poor guy got injured (his arm if I remember correctly) and had to pull out but looked strong until then.

Mikkel wrote:

Rocky Marciano wrote:"If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage, if you are not looking to advance your position IE: dropping for the single or trying to control the head for some clinch hitting (dirty boxing) then they will seperate you as you are basically stalling the fight process.

I agree totally with this as you will get some wrestlers which will just hold you down and not try to do anything, they have no submissions and are looking to win on points by controlling you, it's boring and takes away the whole point of the contest."

Perhaps the problem is that ground grappling is in principle very different to both stand up striking and stand up grappling. Both stand up striking and stand up grappling are very dynamic in nature. Opportunity to do a move presents itself in a split second and is there only a split second. This results in a fast explosive movements = exciting.

In ground grappling you can kill the speed (and you should) and gradually build up web of techniques and set up a trap. It really is like a chess. Most of the time there is lot going on although it looks like nothing is really happening. It just does not make good TV. Extremely effective = yes. Good TV = no.

That being said I hate to see MMA become like Olympic Judo: start standing up (and in mma striking goes here), throw/take down, get stood up really fast, repeat.

This all being said I have a problem with following:

""If you are not advancing your position, not looking for a submission or to get some gnp on then they will stand you up. Same applies to being in the clinch against the cage,"

I agree with the above quote. For sure if both of the fighters are just stalling and holding on be it on the ground or standing up in a clinch, there should be a restart. However if it is just one of the fighters doing stalling in order to get out of the position via restart - then it is totally fucked up. There should be yellow card system in the UFC too just to stop this.

Also what if you have two guys standing up just circling and doing nothing/advancing their striking "position"? It is as boring and as stupid as it is in grappling situation. Yet strikers can stall in order to get referee to help them out of grappling position/dimension back to their own strong area (which is striking) and the opposite does not exit for grapplers. There is no stalling standing up to get "stand down". There is no "stand down" to force fighters who do nothing standing up to try fighting on the ground.

Your saying alot of things and even quoting me..but it dont look as if you disagree with me so..

Lol he does talk alot dont he.