Ray Johnson wrote:

monkeytail wrote:I was just debating the definition of strong actually. Bodybuliders are weak I guess. my bad but to tell ya truth if i was stuck underneath a truck that fell off a jack, id much rather have a bodybuilder or weightlifter trying to lift it off me if I had my choice..

Prof isn't saying builders aren't strong, he is saying that they lack power. However, a trained & experienced boxer has power and would therfore win a fight between the two.

Rocky Marciano wrote:Powerlifters, bodybuilders and whatever are strong and definately stronger than the average Joe. However in my experience it is all about pratical application of this power. People who go to gym and train powerlifting etc. have lto of strenght in those exact line of motions they train/lift. Outside that specific line of motion their ability to produce force drops significantly. It has something (a lot) to do with nerve system.

Wrestling strenght for example is whole another thing from gym strenght. A guy weigting significantly less can have far more pure "wrestling strenght" than a guy who is lot bigger. In wrestling people are always pushing their muscles to the extreme in odd angles via all kind of lines of motion twisting using whole posterior muscle chain.

Good example of this is Alexander Karelin (I suppose everyone has heard of him.) Alexander Karelin is by far the strongest wrestler ever in terms of strenght. Yet when he participated in world strongest man type of competition, just for the fun of it, he did poorly being unable to finish several of the things they do in those type of competitions. Yet having wrestled a bit for the show and out of fun with those same strongmen guys Karelin commented that they felt physically weak on the mat. He tossed them around like he would toss around a kid.

Now what bodybuilder, powerlifters etc. have going on for themself is pure size/mass. All that mass is hard to move around when it comes to grappling. Since F=ma it also gives them edge in punching. A big guy may punch somewhat slow put you can bet that if he hits it is going to hurt due to mass being a factor in producing force and then there is the equation of impact.

Hmm lets see...

if m= mass the puncher is able to put behind his punch (note! with better technique one can put more body mass behind a punch)

v= speed of the punch

we get momentum for the punch which is p=mv

Now person being punched is an object that has momentum (which is zero) as he is not moving. Punch also has a momentum. Now since he is being punched and change in momentum of an object is equal to the force applied to it multiplied by the time over which it was applied we get impulse which is change in momentum. The punch itself goes trough change in momentum from full momentum to zero.

Impulse = Force x Time

The punch itself goes trough change in momentum from full momentum to zero. For this reason the change in momentum is equal to the final momentum:

Force x Time = mv

ma x t = mv |:t

ma = (mv)/t

F= (mv)/t

Force = impulse/time

force (in Newtons) = (mass (in kg) x velocity (in m/s) / time (in seconds)

So according to the equation the more mass punch has "behind" it the harder the punch is and the more speed punch has the harder the punch is. So a FAST punch with WHOLE BODYWEIGHT behind it should be strongest punch according to this equation.

However I am having a sligth WTF moment here. Lets take a look at teh final equation which is F=(mv)/t . Now according to this equation the smaller the time punch contacts opponent the harder the punch is. IN other words the more of a PUSHING kind of movement punch is the less force it produces. Snappy whiplike punch is harder.

HOWEVER this is where the WTF moment comes into play because the longer time force is applied to a system the greater.. well something

If we apply a force to the system, it changes the momentum P= ft, In classical mechanics, momentum is the product of the mass and velocity of an object p=mv

in this case... uh I am too tired for this now and dont know what is it but something is bugging me about this related to the time punch makes contact to opponents face.